RIPPLE SALVO… #886… TO WHICH THE SECRETARY OF STATE SAID: “YOU NEVER CAN TELL WHEN THEY WILL BREAK AND GIVE IN.”… Among the State Department’s Historical Documents is a one-pager “Notes of Meeting” dated 8 August 1968 of a meeting in Dean Rusk’s home with the Commandant of the Marine Corps and Cy Vance, #2 of the Peace Negotiation team, who was home from Paris. Others noted in the loosely documented discussion were Paul Nitze, #2 at Defense, General Wheeler, Chairman, JCS. … The gist of the conversation from a few excerpts: (1) CMC: “I sat back with increasing wonderment. I began to sense what what was going on–in quietly assuring manner Rusk knocked down every single new approach.” (to moving the Peace negotiations forward)…”I believe honestly that Rusk assumes there’ll be no settlement and it’s a mistake to (look for) …an approach! Every idea he is opposed to–on grounds that any new approach by us would be an indication of weakness.”… (2) “Rusk says–bombing goes on until we get a firm commitment as what they’ll do. This is an absolute Total impasse!… “The main concern I have, says Rusk, is lest they get some idea of weakness.” (3) CMC says Rusk is just following LBJ’s line.”… (4) JCS: “…came to conclusion there is no point in terminating the bombing.”… (5) JCS: “… “…taking strong views of excellent shape we’re in and so good that enemy can’t make an August attack! To which Nitze says: “If enemy is really as weak as JCS says, they must be on the verge of caving in and starting negotiations to moving.”… (6) Talk of Domestic Support in U.S. led Wheeler to say: “We’re in trouble–other Chiefs think not–all agree that to bomb Hanoi would bring the roof down from U.S. public opinion. It will take 2 years without negotiation to wind up the war.”… In the middle of this set of notes: CMC says he firmly told Rusk “All we are saying, despite its unsuccessful nature, all that is being suggested is we keep on fighting and killing boys–Rusk’s answer: ‘You never can tell when they’ll break and give in!'”…
Read at: https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1964-68v06/d326
New York Times OpEd: “FOR VIETNAM PEACE” at Ripple Salvo below, but first…
GOOD MORNING… Day EIGHT HUNDRED EIGHTY-SIX of a revisit to the pages of history recording the events and participants of “the bombing of North Vietnam.” It was called “the air war” in public, but it was “OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER (C)” to those with a security clearance and “the need to know.”…Go figure!!… (Humble Host wrote a short story for publication in 1967. I included “Rolling Thunder” in my prose. Submitted for clearance, I was advised that: “If LCDR Taylor persists in pursuit of publication of this article, appropriate legal action will result. The inclusion of “Rolling Thunder” was identified as the reason for their angst.”)… =Muzzled Bear…
HEAD LINES from The New York Times for 8 August 1968…
THE WAR: Page 1: “252 VIETCONG DIE IN DELTA COMBAT–NO ALLIED LOSSES REPORTED IN DRIVE AT FOREST’S EDGE”… “A military spokesman said tonight that Allies troops had killed 252 Vietcong in seven days of fighting in the Mekong Delta. There were no allied fatalities. The combat centered 110 miles southwest of Saigon on the northern edge of the U Minh forest, long a Vietcong stronghold. …American infantrymen and South Vietnamese marines had entered the area from river boats, located the enemy, engaged them, and called in armed helicopter and artillery strikes. While the ground troops held the enemy in place, the helicopters raked them with machine gun fire and rockets. When the helicopters broke away to get more ammunition the artillery took over. During the week the maneuver was used several times and 30 to 50 of the enemy were said to have fallen each time…. In the northern provinces United States marines killed 23 North Vietnamese near the village of Anhoa, about 15 mjiles southwest of Danang. One marine was killed and 23 wounded. …It was disclosed today that allied troops had invaded the enemy stronghold in the Ashau Valley for the second time this year…. “…
PEACE TALKS: Page 1: “U.S. INFORMS HANOI IT WILL SOON FREE 14 CAPTURED NORTH VIETNAMESE SAILORS”…”…the announcement was made in Paris at the 16th negotiating session between American and North Vietnamese delegates.”…
Page 1: “NIXON WINS NOMINATION ON FIRST BALLOT–SUPPORT FOR JOHN LINDSAY AS #2 GROWING–Original Vote 692–But Then Convention Makes It Unanimous On Plea Of Reagan”… “Richard Milhous Nixon, the ‘old pro’ of American politics, was nominated for President today on the first ballot…Mr. Nixon, only the eight man to be renominated by the Republicans after having lost on Presidential election, triumphed over a determined ‘stop Nixon’ drive waged from the left by Governor Nelson Rockefeller of New York and from the right by Governor Ronald Reagan of California.”… Page 1: “LINDSAY HINTS INABILITY TO REFUSE NIXON–New Yorker Troubled By Prosect Of Linking Name to Nominee”… Page 1: “CZECHS SEEKING WAYS TO LOOSEN SOVIET TRADE TIES–Aides Are Scouting In West for Cash Loans To Make Industry Competitive”… Page 1: “U.S.STEEL ENDS 7-DAY PRICE WAR– PRICE RISES CUT IN HALF–Rest of Steel Industry Recedes–Rolling Back To 25% Increase–Johnson is Pleased”… Page 4: “EISENHOWER RESTS–DOCTORS SATISFIED–But They Term Recovery Chances Unpredictable”…
8 AUGUST 1968…OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER… New York Times (9 Aug reporting 8 Aug ops) Page 6: “In air action, American pilots flew 110 multiaircraft missions against targets in North Vietnam.”… VIETNAM: AIR LOSSES (Chris Hobson) There were two fixed wing aircraft lost in Southeast Asia on 8 August 1968…
(1) CAPTAIN C.R. CUSACK, USMC and CAPTAIN S.M. CREAL, USMC, were flying an F-4B of the VMFA-122 Crusaders and MAG-11 out of Danang and making a third napalm run on an enemy position about 15 miles southwest of Danang when hit by machine gun fire. The Phantom broke into flames and CAPTAIN CUSACK headed for Danang. The two Marines were forced to eject and came down in the Gulf of Tonkin where they were rescued–one by ship and one by helo, to fly and fight again… (Tough tactics: multiple passes at very low altitude when the enemy knows you’re coming and where your target is)… super risky…Only the bravest may apply…
(2) The 136th TFS and 31st TFW out of Tuy Hoa lost a F-100C due to engine failure. The pilot ejected and was rescued…
SUMMARY OF ROLLING THUNDER LOSSES (KIA.MIA/POW) FOR THE FOUR 8 AUGUST DATES OCCURRING DURING THE FOUR YEARS OF THE OPERATION…
1965… NONE…
1966… BLUE MONDAY that followed BLACK SUNDAY when we lost eight aircraft and seven warriors, including five POWs. On BLUE MONDAY the toll was another seven aircraft and six aviators as Rolling Thunder went against several of the highest RT targets, including the enemy’s petroleum target set. Downed on 8 Aug 66:
CAPTAIN LAWRENCE HERBERT GOLDBERG, USAF…(KIA)… and… 1LT PATRICK EDWARD WYNNE, USAF… (KIA)… and … 1LT FREDERICK R. FLOM, USAF… (POW)… and… CAPTAIN CHARLES MILTON WALLING, USAF… (POW)… and… 1LT AADO KOMMENDANT, USAF… (KIA) … and… MAJOR JAMES HELMS KASLER, USAF… (POW)…
On 2017 Humble host and companion blogger Mighty Thunder both posted tributes to COLONEL JAMES KASLER, who counts among his 76 awards for Valor and service, three awards of the AIR FORCE CROSS. COLONEL KASLER ranks as the 9th most decorated in United States Military history. Please search the RTR archives for 8 August 1966 for the earlier tributes. Google “COLONEL JAMES KASLER” amd enjoy his 95-minute oral history on tape. Three wars, MiG Ace in Korea, 198 Combat Missions, seven years as POW (with one escape attempt). Better yet: buy and read then pass to a grand son or grand daughter the biography of a patriot like very few others, TEMPERED STEEL: The Three Wars of Triple Air Force Cross Winner Jim Kasler”… by Perry D. Luckett and Charles L. Byler…. In Indiana they call COLONEL KASLER: “The Indiana Sgt. York“…
At a Memorial Service in his honor after his passing in April 2014 one speaker left this for us all: “Well known and oft quoted is “old soldiers never die, they just fade away.” Of Jim Kasler, let it be said, “He died, but he will never fade away.”…. “Glory gained, duty done”… He is remembered in the company of five other Rolling Thunder warriors who had a date with destiny 52 years ago this day on a one-way Rolling Thunder ride into north Vietnam… oohrah…
1968… NONE…
RIPPLE SALVO… #886…The Sunday New York Times, 11 August 1968, page 10E, OpEd:
FOR VIETNAM PEACE… I quote…
“Paraphrasing Lenin, those who have said ‘A’ must say ‘B.’ A bad war simply cannot produce a victorious peace. This is the truth the nation confronts over Vietnam. It is also the a truth which challenges the Johnson Administration in these last months of its power. There has been no victory on the battlefield. The negotiations in Paris are predicated on a recognition by both Washington and Hanoi of that fact. Some American die-hards still believe that a military victory could be won, but their arguments–in this third year of major yet inconclusive war–have lost all power to convince the public. The dovish tone of last week’s Republican Convention was striking evidence of how completely the American people have withdrawn their confidence from those who recommend a still more resolute prosecution of the war.
“Yet in Paris both sides conduct themselves as though each were able to demand major concessions giving up little in its own position. The North Vietnamese, no doubt, are buoyed by belief that a new American Administration might be compelled to make compromises which this Administration denies. Also their argument that bombing of the North must be ended before substantive negotiations begin has a propaganda plausibility the American position lacks.
“The probability that this election, no matter which party wins, will convey an unmistakable mandate to the new President to end the war. Little latitude would be left for breaking off talks and returning to the battlefield–much less an enlarged battlefield–even with new strategies and expanded South Vietnamese, as well as American forces. The Republican campaign platform, naming as Vietnam alternatives only settlement and ‘de-Americanization’ of the war, indicates as much, So does the whole sense of the G.O.P. convention.
“There might then have to be an expedient settlement–or disengagement. But if any new Administration, Republican or Democratic, ends this war on worse terms than the Johnson Administration now seeks, almost inevitably the result would be bitter political controversy and attacks from the other party. That means that the incoming President might, by liquidating the Vietnam errors of its predecessor, expose himself to a kind of attack which could easily cripple his ability to carry out needed reforms in other areas of American national policy. The result would be a further undermining of American world influence.
“Perhaps the greatest service Mr. Johnson now could perform for the nation would be to free his successor from the threat. The Johnson Administration entered this war for honorable, if miscalculated, reasons. The war has gone badly; Washington has, of necessity, turned to seeking a political settlement. To conclude this drama, a decision to stop the bombing of the North and thus test to the utmost the chance of settlement now would redeem much in what has proved a tragic national adventure.”… End OpEd …
RTR Quote for 8 August: GEORGE BURNS: “The secret to a good sermon is to have a good beginning and a good ending; and to have the two as close together as possible.” …Amen… Same goes for political rants, too. KISS. Humble Host emailed the White House this week a plea to: “Stand up; speak up; and, shut up.” And if he wants to drag out his rallies, he needs to upgrade and put some new zip in his eye-to-eye events with: (1) a graph or two (visuals of his Administration’s success), and (2) Audience participation. He is understandably reluctant to take Qs from the Fake Newsfolk, so, take 10 questions from the lovable “Deplorables” at his rallies (submit Qs on cards for staff review and selection, free autographed hat if Q is read)…Turn the rallies into reality shows… No response yet…
Lest we forget… Bear..