RIPPLE SALVO… #585… Secretary McNamara testified in closed Senate hearing on 25 August that bombing North Vietnam does not make a significant difference in either reducing loss of G.I. lives down South or in reducing the flow of men and material from north to the battlefields in the South. On 11 October the Senate released the testimony to the world… but first…
Good Morning: Day FIVE HUNDRED EIGHTY-FIVE of another look at OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER on the 50th Anniversary of the war with North Vietnam…
12 OCTOBER 1967… HEAD LINES from The New York Times on a pleasant Thursday in New York City…
Page 1: “RED SOX SET BACK CARDINALS, 8-4, AND EVEN SERIES–BOSTON CLOUTS 4 HOME RUNS–LONBORG FACES GIBSON IN FINAL GAME TODAY IN BOSTON”… Page 1: “House Speaker John McCormack Scores Foes of War Policy”... “John McCormack denounced congressional critics of the Administration’s Vietnam policy today, charging that they were giving aid and comfort to the enemy… He drew a standing ovation from some 100 representatives on the House floor at the time.”… Page 1: “Thieu Plans Offer to Hanoi on Talks–He Will Write to Ho Chi Minh Proposing Pause in Raids in Return for Meeting”… Page 1: “Jobless Rate at 4.1%, Highest Since 1965–Increase, sharpest in five years attributed to rise in number of women entering the labor force….” Page 2: “Foes Arms Cache Found In South Vietnam–Hundreds of Weapons Seized in Tunnel Complex”… Page 20: “Vietcong Forces Receive A New Name at South Vietnam Congress”… “The Armed Forces of Liberation in South Vietnam have become the “People’s Armed Forces of Liberation.’ “… Page 26: “Senate Rebuffs Senator Dirksen Move to Reserve Power of Anti-Red Unit”… “Minority leader in Senate seeking to give powers to fight communism to the Subversive Activity Control Board, which Supreme Court has rendered inoperative.”… Page 1 (13 Oct): “The United States command announced that 102 American servicemen were killed in action last week. It was the lowest American death toll in two months. The casualty figure raises to 13,736 the number of Americans killed in the war.”…
12 OCTOBER 1967… The President’s Daily Brief (CIA-TS) North Vietnam: Hanoi Claims Production Increases. Hanoi continues its efforts to show that it is providing for the country’s essential economic needs, despite the bombings. North Vietnam’s minister of light industry recently stated that production of consumer goods is increasing to meet the people’s demands for food stuffs, clothing, and household needs such as sauce, salt, cloth, paper and earthenware. The minister also confidently predicted that the trend would continue during the rest of the year…. NORTH VIETNAMESE REFLECTIONS OF US POLITICAL ATTITUDES TOWARD THE WAR: Hanoi on US Opposition. A roundup of antiwar activities in the US was carried by Hanoi’s international news service on 11 October. It reports on the “peace torch marathon” in which a gas torch is being carried for Hiroshima, Japan, to Washington for the big antiwar demonstration planned for 21 October. It also covers a student demonstration against “the dirty war in Vietnam” which took place when Mrs. Johnson arrived in Williamstown, Massachusetts, to address the local college…Quotes are included from a letter published in the Los Angeles Times by an American professor, who condemns US bombings of North Vietnam and accuses the US of blocking “the road of national self-determination of the Vietnamese people.”…The broadcast also notes briefly the 500,000-signature petition handed to Congress by the “negotiations Now” Group, but for some reason adds that this was only half the signatures the group planned to obtain. Hanoi includes no commentary of its own…
12 OCTOBER 1967… OPERATION ROLLING THUNDER…New York Times (13 Oct reporting 12 Oct ops)… Page 1: 2 SHIPYARDS RAIDED FOR THE FIRST TIME IN CENTRAL HAIPHONG”… “United States Navy pilots bombed two shipyards near the center of Haiphong yesterday for the first tome a military spokesman announced this morning. In ordering the raids in North Vietnam’s key port the United States removed two more sites from the list of restricted targets. The attacks were part of a series of raids that continued through the night in the Haiphong area. Both shipyards were heavily damaged, the spokesman reported. Pilots reported direct hits on drydocks and on surrounding support buildings at one yard, 1.6 miles northwest of the center of Haiphong. The other yard was 1.2 miles west of the center of Haiphong. In bombing the shipyards the United States pilots veered clear of Haiphong’s main docks to the north and northeast of the city. These have remained untouched. The military spokesman also announced that Navy pilots had struck Catbi airfield, four miles southeast of Haiphong, as well as two army barracks just south of the city. The MIG airfield at Catbi was bombed this week for the first time. The major shipyard attacked yesterday is on the Cua Cam, the major waterway into Haiphong harbor. A spokesman reported that the yard repairs 5 per cent of the ships and barges of North Vietnam. With a drydock and 37 support buildings, this facility is also used for the construction of barges.
“The other bombed yard was 1.2 miles west of the center of Haiphong. This yard, with a drydock and five support buildings, is also used for repairs. Marine A-6 Intruder pilots struck Wednesday at the Hoalac airfield, 20 miles west of Hanoi and a rail yard 70 miles northwest of the North Vietnam capital. Carrier based pilots attacked the Namdinh transshipment area, 45 miles southwest of Haiphong, as well as highway bridges, water-supply craft and cave entrances at a coastal defense site 28 miles north-northeast of Vinh. HANOI CLAIMS 2 U.S. Planes… (Agence France-Presse) Two United States aircraft were shot down today near Haiphong. The North Vietnamese press agency reported this brought the total of United States aircraft shot down in the North to 2.391, the agency said…”
“Vietnam: Air Losses” (Chris Hobson) There were three fixed wing aircraft lost in Southeast Asia on 12 October 1967…
(1) MAJOR W. SIEBERT was flying an O-1G of the 19th TASS and 504th TASG our of Bien Hoa on a visual recce flight about 10 miles north of Bien Hoa when hit by ground fire in the O-1 engine. MAJOR SIEBERT was seriously injured in the ensuing crash but was recovered by an Army helicopter to fly and fight again…
(2) A C-130A of the 21st TAS and 374th TAW piloted by CAPTAIN REED hit a bulldozer on the runway on takeoff at the airstrip at Dak To. The heavily damaged Hercules was landed at Cam Ranh Bay and was deemed too badly damaged to repair. CAPTAIN REED and his 3-man crew were uninjured, the bulldozer driver was killed.
(3) CAPTAIN THOMAS GARNER DERRICKSON and 1LT JOHN KAY HARDY were flying an F-4C of the TFS and 12th TFW on a night armed recce just north of the DMZ following Route 101 north. A target was spotted on the road near Xuan Hoa, 15 miles north of the buffer zone and CAPTAIN DERRICKSON and 1LT HARDY rolled in on the target. The wingman observed a flash and fire in that area. There was intense ground fire in opposition and it was assumed the Phantom was downed by ground fire with neither CAPTAIN DERRICKSON or 1LT HARDY surviving, both presumed killed in action. Neither of their remains have been returned and these brave warriors rest in peace tonight where they died for their country 50 years ago today… LEFT BEHIND… awaiting recovery by the Joint Recovery Team…(?)…
12 October 1967…One of the prolific writers who kept a journal of his combat experience was Major Sam Armstrong of the 34th TFS and 388th TFW flying F-105Ds our of Korat. The following is pulled from his “100-mission combat log.”…
12 Oct 67… “Mission 4. F-105D…Call Sign Dallas Take off at 0730. Mission length 2+50. Flight Lineup: #1-Dwight Sullivan (Major Dwight Everett ‘Sully’ Sullivan). POW 17 Oct 67…#2- Me.”
“2-ship flight fragged both primary and secondary against a target in south Laos (Steel Tiger). The target was a natural ford over a stream. We had to circumnavigate some thunderstorms to get to the area. Once there we had two A-1Es mark the road they wanted cut. Rod hit his mark and caused 40-yards of dirt slide along the road. I was slow and low when I finally had my target worked and consequently had poor dive angle. My bombs overshot the rod by 200-feet and hit the stream. My bombing problem was compounded by my attack heading, which was downslope of the hillside which was the same as my dive angle, 30-degrees. Since we had no tanker and our fuel was low, the armed reconnaissance of Package 1, 100-miles to the north, was accomplished ‘tongue in cheek’ for a counter.”… Humble Host will be including the journal entries of Major Sam Armstong as time and space allow…
RIPPLE SALVO… #585… New York Times 11 October 1967, Page 1: “McNamara Doubts Rise in G.I. Losses If Bombing Is Cut–Told Senate Panel Attacks On North Barely Reduce Flow of Material South”…by John W. Finney…
“Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara has expressed doubt that a reduced bombing of North Vietnam would lead to a marked increase in American casualties in South Vietnam.
“In testimony before the Senate Preparedness Investigation Subcommittee, Mr. McNamara said that the bombing had not significantly affected North Vietnam’s war-making capability nor seriously deterred the flow of men and material to Communist-led forces in South Vietnam.
“Throughout his testimony, given on August 25 and made public today by the subcommittee, Mr. McNamara minimized his differences with the Joint Chiefs of Staff over bombing targets and tactics in North Vietnam.
“But his testimony and that given earlier by some military leaders to the subcommittee gave fresh evidence of a basic division between the civilian and military leaders in the Pentagon over the military effectiveness of the bombing campaign against North Vietnam.
“In the weeks since Mr. McNamara and the military leaders appeared on Capital Hill there has been no indication of any change of mind of any of them.
“While defending the bombing, Mr. McNamara repeatedly questioned the premise of the military leaders that there was a direct military relationship between the bombing campaign in the North and the fighting in the South
“His basic argument was that while bombing was having a political effect of increasing the ‘price’ North Vietnam was paying for its aggression in South Vietnam, it was having little effect in reducing the military pressures in South Vietnam.
“As in his written statement made public on the day of his testimony before the subcommittee, Mr. McNamara, in the private questioning, expressed doubt that the bombing could break the will of the North Vietnamese people or drive Hanoi to the bargaining table.
“So skeptical was Mr. McNamara about the military effectiveness of the bombing that Senator Stuart Symington, Democrat of Missouri, finally asked toward the end of the day-long testimony;
” ‘Why don’t we stop all the bombings up North and all American lives lost in the North and just continue to lose American lives in the South?’
” ‘Because (deleted testimony) on balance we believe it helps us,’ the Defense Secretary replied. ‘And I think the best evidence of that is Hanoi’s strenuous and vigorous propaganda campaign to force us to stop it.
“Mr. McNamara disclosed however, that because of his dissatisfaction with effectiveness of the bombing, he has requested the Joint Chiefs last spring to consider alternatives to the present strategy.
“This included a proposal to concentrate the bombing below the 20th parallel in the narrow panhandle of North
Vietnam just above the demilitarized zone between North and South Vietnam.
“Two other alternatives considered, he said, were a substantial increase in the air campaign, including attacks on the port of Haiphong and the mining of coastal waters, and finally a continuation of the past strategy of gradually increasing the bombing pressure on North Vietnam.
“The third alternative was finally chosen, with the Administration giving approval in recent months to the attack of targets in formerly restricted zones around Hanoi and Haiphong and in the buffer zone along the Chinese border.
“Mr. McNamara said that the idea of restricting the bombing to South of the 20th parallel–an idea that in part prompted the subcommittee’s hearings with its subsequent recommendation that the President lift the restrictions on the bombing campaign–was not completely ‘dead.’
” ‘I don’t know that 20 degrees is a proper alternative,’ he said, ‘but I am going to continue to search for better ways of doing what we are doing because I don’t think we are doing it very well in terms of reducing the flow of men and material into the South.’
“One step that he specifically ruled out was bombing and mining the port of Haiphong, as has been repeatedly recommended by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
“His basic objection was that closing the North Vietnam’s main port would not result in a ‘significant reduction’ in imports since the material could be brought in by other means. He cited the rail line from China, which, he asserted, was not being used to capacity, and lighters over the beach, which, he said, were used for petroleum supplies when the petroleum depots around Haiphong were destroyed about a year ago.
“Asked whether reduced bombing in the North would result in increased American casualties in the South, Mr. McNamara at first replied, ‘I don’t know’ but then said:
” ‘There are many who believe and there is much evidence to support the conclusion, that the flow of men and material into the South is not determined by the air campaign in the North, but by the ability of the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese, operating by the way, without, for all practical purposes, a single wheeled vehicle in all of South Vietnam, to accept the men and materiel from the North.’
” ‘In other words, the bottleneck is not on the lines of communication in North Vietnam, but is on the lines of communication through Laos, and the lines of communication in South Vietnam.’
“On political grounds, Mr. McNamara said that he would oppose any reduction in the bombing campaign, which, he said, would have the effect of giving ‘the North Vietnamese a free ride on their aggression in the South,’ unless ‘we got something substantial in return for it.’
“Where the bombing has caused economic dislocation in North Vietnam, Mr. McNamara said, ‘I do not think it has in any significant way affected their war-making capability.’
“Despite the bombing, he said, reading from the intelligence estimates , ‘the North Vietnamese still retain the capability to support activities in South Vietnam and Laos to present or increased combat levels and force structure.
” ‘All of the evidence so far is that we have not been able to destroy a sufficient quantity (of war material in North Vietnam) to limit the activity in the South below the present level,’ he said, ‘and I do not know that we can in the future.’
“Mr. McNamara’s skepticism about the military effectiveness of the bombing produced an equally skeptical and sometimes hostile reaction from the subcommittee members.
“In the questioning they brought the Defense Secretary into direct conflict with some of the earlier testimony by the military leaders. For example, he took the position under questioning that there was no ‘direct relationship between the level of bombing in the North and the United States forces required in the South.’ This was directly contrary to the testimony of military leaders that a reduction of the bombing would require more American troops in South Vietnam. General Earle G. Wheeler, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, earlier told the subcommittee that a reduction in the bombing would result in increased American casualties in the South. Mr. McNamara took issue with this statement as well as one by General John F. McConnell, the Air Force Chief of Staff, that the United States would have suffered fewer casualties if the bombing had not been burdened by restrictions on targets.
“Mr. McNamara also disputed the contention of the military leaders that the bombing campaign would have been more effective and less costly if the United States had started off in 1965 with a severe application of the air power, destroying 94 targets in 16 days, as recommended by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
“Since the subcommittee hearings were announced in July the Administration has approved the bombing of many of the previously unauthorized targets so that by the time Mr. McNamara testified there were only 57 proposed targets not yet authorized. Mr. McNamara described ‘many, if not most, of these as ‘relatively insignificant targets.’ “…
Tomorrow: The NYT Editorial Board responds to Mr. McNamara’s testimony…
RTR QUOTE for 12 October: Jonathan Swift, A Rhapsody: “Hobbes clearly proves that every creature lives in a state of war by nature.”
Lest we forget… Bear